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Questions

Was it possible for a sailor/crewman on a merchant/passenger ship to become a footman? What were the qualifications to become a footman? Was there anyone who couldn’t (due to social reasons) become a footman?

 

I've just discovered that Burkes peerage did not appear until 1826 but it is regularly referred to in regencies (not all of them set after 1826). Was there a publication that preceded Burkes?

What were the wages for officers of the peninsula war? Particularly Captains and Lieutenants? Did these vary heavily between regiments? Did they vary much between specialist roles such as a Regimental Surgeon or an officer in the Engineering corps?

How soon could a Regency widow remarry? Was there actually any legal enforcement of the yearlong mourning period, and/or would a churchman refuse to perform the ceremony? That is, if she's willing to brave the resulting scandal, is there anything else to stop her?

If I am wondering a lot about the education system. Were children home school'd? If so, were outside teachers hired to teach in the home? Any other information on education would be fantastic?

Was it legal for an Earl to have a fox hunting party on his own estate in June?

If a couple produce an illegitimate child and then marry 10 years later, can that child be legitimized to inherit his father's title? If so, how would that be accomplished? Also, I have heard differing views on the legality of a widow marrying her late husband's brother. Was this legal in 1800-1830 or was it considered incest?

Say Earl X has a son, Viscount XX (courtesy title), owns a manor and house in town, etc. Does Viscount XX live with daddy Earl until he inherits? Even after marrying and having children? Or would there be other property he lived in until he become Earl X? Does Viscount XX own anything until he inherits, or is it all at the behest of his father?

It was my understanding that heirs of entailed property and titles had to be in the direct line. If for instance, the current Viscount has no immediate male relative (son and grandson dead) would the grandson of the Viscount's sister be the heir or would they search for a descendent through the male lines? I also wondered if you knew of any instances where someone succeeded in breaking an entail to allow sister's son or grandson to inherit.

I saw your reference to country dances, which interested me because Dickens preferred them to more formal dancing, but what were they?

What were priest holes? What time period were they used?

If an Earl dies, do his daughters wear mourning clothes? If so, for how long, and what sort of clothes are appropriate for this period?

If a man were to hold an Irish title (say earl) and a lesser English one (baron) and he marries in England, does he do so as the earl or the baron?

Further from the question about post coaches - I'm fascinated to know about the network of inns. How did they manage the swapping of horses? Who owed what horse? or were all horses considered equal and they didn't mind which horse they went on with?

My character needs to travel from Tintagel, North Cornwall, to London. What kind of coach would he use and how long might it take in the year 1817? Also, where can I find the names of hotels in London where he might stay?

What might an arsonist use to have a building burn more quickly?

Did Mothers wear mourning clothes for stillborn infants?

 

 

I've just discovered that Burkes peerage did not appear until 1826 but it is regularly referred to in regencies (not all of them set after 1826). Was there a publication that preceded Burkes?

 

I own an 1802 copy of Debrett. There were also peerages by Collins, Lodge, Kearsley, and Stockdale.

 

Was it possible for a sailor/crewman on a merchant/passenger ship to become a footman? What were the qualifications to become a footman? Was there anyone who couldn’t (due to social reasons) become a footman?

 

The only requirement needed to be a footman was to be male and have someone hire you for the position. Some employers preferred handsome , tall footmen. Others just wanted men who were competent. There was absolutely no reason why a sailor couldn't become a footman, or just a male servant.

 

What were the wages for officers of the peninsula war? Particularly Captains and Lieutenants? Did these vary heavily between regiments? Did they vary much between specialist roles such as a Regimental Surgeon or an officer in the Engineering corps

 

Per Diem for 365 Days

*1 British Pound (£)= 20 Shillings (s)
1 British Shilling (s)= 12 Pence (d)

Colonel
daily: 1£ 2s. 6d.
annual: 410£ 12s. 6d.

Lieutenant-Colonel
daily:0£ 15s. 11d.
annual: 290£ 9s. 7d.

Major
daily:0£ 14s. 1d.
annual: 257£ 0s. 5d.

Captain
daily:0£ 9s. 5d.
annual: 171£ 17s. 1d.

Surgeon of the Line
daily:0£ 9s. 5d.
annual: 171£ 17s. 1d.

Lieutenants
daily:0£ 6s. 5d.
annual: 118£ 17s. 1d.

Ensigns
daily:0£ 5s. 5d.
annual: 98£ 17s. 1d.

Source: The Annual Register, or, A View of the History, Politics, and Literature for the Year 1798.

See daily pay of the comissioned and non-commissioned Army Officers, and Privates, in the regular forces. From The Political State of the British Empire, by John Adolphus, 1818

 

How soon could a Regency widow remarry? Was there actually any legal enforcement of the yearlong mourning period, and/or would a churchman refuse to perform the ceremony? That is, if she's willing to brave the resulting scandal, is there anything else to stop her?

 

The short answer is No.

In the late 18th and early 19th century there was no law that said a widow could not marry within a year or two of her husband's death. Society felt that it was proper for her to wait at least a year-- though some preferred she wait two years to remarry, and others felt it wrong for her to ever remarry.

Some felt a widow should never remarry. If the widow had any property from the first husband, his heirs preferred  that she not take that to a second marriage in another family.

Complications could arise when a young widow  married  within a year of her husband's death and she was or became pregnant. A child born within ten months of the first husband's death could be considered his.  This was the main reason why people were against widows remarrying  too soon after the first husband's death.

Clergymen could counsel against a marriage before the year was out but would not usually refuse to conduct the ceremony.

 

If I am wondering a lot about the education system. Were children home school'd? If so, were outside teachers hired to teach in the home? Any other information on education would be fantastic?


Boys of the upper classes and the upper gentry were usually taught at home until they were ten or so and then they were sent to school. . The Austen boys were taught at home until they went either to University or the navy.
Girls had governesses. Special tutors were hired when needed.

They did have seminaries for girls but it was much less common to send girls to school than it was to send boys. Still, there were many so called schools for girls. No school was inspected nor were there qualifications for the teachers or certificates.

There is actually more information about schools in the USA than schools in England, because the English left schooling very much up to the parent.

Jane Austen's School

The Abbey School

Education in England

Poor children went to a dame school or the penny school. They paid a penny for each class they took. there were many charities that started schools.The Sunday School movement was started more to teach reading than to teach the Bible. In deed, the schools were set up so that Protestant children could read the scripture for themselves. They were not always taught to write.

Scotland had parish schools and compulsory education long before England considered the matter.

There are books about the more famous schools and the two universities

 

Was it legal for an Earl to have a fox hunting party on his own estate in June?

 

Most sources say that fox hunting usually was a late autumn and winter sport.While they might go cubbing in September and October to train dogs, most hunts started in  November and went until April.

Foxes were considered vermin and weren't covered by game laws. There was more social pressure concerning the right time to hunt foxes then there was legal pressure.

 

If a couple produce an illegitimate child and then marry 10 years later, can that child be legitimized to inherit his father's title? If so, how would that be accomplished? Also, I have heard differing views on the legality of a widow marrying her late husband's brother. Was this legal in 1800-1830 or was it considered incest?

 

This was not possible in England. It was possible in Scotland, if the child were born in Scotland and the parents later married there. Some  sources say, it was only possible if the couple were free to marry at the time: that is neither was married to anyone else.


A widow could marry her brother in law if a clergyman could be found to conduct the service.  However, this marriage could be challenged as illegal and void at any time and the children of the marriage made illegitimate. Most clergymen called it incest and refused to conduct the marriage ceremony between two people related in that way.  This was made completely illegal and all such marriages void in 1835. At that time, all such existing marriages were declared valid but all such marriages from that day, completely  null and void.

 

Say Earl X has a son, Viscount XX (courtesy title), owns a manor and house in town, etc. Does Viscount XX live with daddy Earl until he inherits? Even after marrying and having children? Or would there be other property he lived in until he become Earl X? Does Viscount XX own anything until he inherits, or is it all at the behest of his father?

 

They did not seem to have anything against multiple generations living together. However, it was not uncommon for there to be a property set aside for the heir where he lived until he succeeeded his father. The son could also live on property he got as part of his own marriage settlement. I don't think there is one answer.

 

It was my understanding that heirs of entailed property and titles had to be in the direct line. If for instance, the current Viscount has no immediate male relative (son and grandson dead) would the grandson of the Viscount's sister be the heir or would they search for a descendent through the male lines? I also wondered if you knew of any instances where someone succeeded in breaking an entail to allow sister's son or grandson to inherit.

 

Entailed property does go to one of the male heirs in the direct line -- but the direct line is from the original possessor.

Adam has property which he entails on his heirs male. He has three sons. Abner, Ben, Charles. Abner inherits and has a son named Dick. Dick has no children or only has girls. Then one looks to see if Ben is alive , if so he inherits; if not, did he have a son? Ben died without children. So they look next to Charles. Charles is deceased but left five sons. The property continues down the line of the oldest of Charles's sons. If that line ends without sons, then the line goes to the next oldest of Charles' sons, and so on.

All of these are in direct line from Adam though cousins to the children of Abner. If there are no male descendents of Adam left two things could happen. A title would become extinct.

When property is entailed or settled, it usually is tied up for heirs male . However, the originating document often will have a contingency clause stating what happens if there are no more males to inherit. This clause often says that the land goes to the family of Adam's wife, if the property came from them; or it could go to the descendents of Adam's younger brother ( none of Adam's brothers would automatically inherit when he entailed it to heirs of his body male.), Or the property could be left to the oldest male descendent of the females born to Adam. Or the property could go to the oldest surviving female, starting with the oldest brother's line.

The sister's son wouldn't inherit property unless she could inherit it first.
If there is no such clause the land goes to the crown and family members can petition to have it given to them. That is property.

Titles would descend through the lines like property as far as Adam's sons, grandsons and descendents are concerned. However, neither his brother nor any female could inherit unless it was stated in the patent at the time it was granted.

A sister to a viscount would not get to have the title , so her son wouldn't inherit it. A female could end up with property but not the title and her son could not inherit unless she could.

 

I saw your reference to country dances, which interested me because Dickens preferred them to more formal dancing, but what were they?

 

Generally, English country dances refers to the dances such as can be seen in the recent spate of movies loosely based on the novels of Jane Austen.

Some say the name came about because the dances were danced in the country and not at court, where the minuet still held sway. I do not have a definitive answer and matters are clouded by the renewed popularity of English country dancing (ECD) and the varying interpretations of it.

What ever the origins, English country dancing was largely abandoned when couple dances, such as waltzing and then the polka, came in.

English country dancing is the ancestor of square dancing, Virginia reels, and Texas line dances.

There are many sites in the web with diagrams, discussions, explanations and offers for lessons in English country dancing.

Regency Dance Manuals

One book, Richardson, Philip. The Social Dances of the Nineteenth Century in England , London. 1960, has a chapter on "Dances prior to XIX Century."
He, along with many others, give Playford the credit for first describing English country dances in 1651. His book The English Dancing Master gave 100 examples of dances.

Thos. Wilson was a well known dancing instructor of the early 19th century and wrote several books giving instruction for various dances.

"Roger de Coverley " is a well known form of the dance.

 

What were priest holes? What time period were they used?

 

This Wikipedia page answers the question about Priest holes very well. They were necessary in the time of Elizabeth and James I but not after the restoration of Charles II.

When no longer needed to hide priest, the holes were used as wall safes by many.

As the article on Wikipedia says, there are probably still some priest holes that have never been discovered. Some might even contain a body. Nice touch for a mystery type story, don't you think?

 

If an Earl dies, do his daughters wear mourning clothes? If so, for how long, and what sort of clothes are appropriate for this period?

 

The daughters wore mourning for approximately six months. They started out in black dresses, bonnets, pelisses, shawls, gloves and shoes and gradually added white and grey. The mourning outfits were different from fashionable ones in that mourning wear was made of dull fabrics without ornamentation other than jet beads. Sparkling jewelry was not worn during mourning do no diamonds or other such gems. plain gold and silver or jet necklaces could be worn. Some times the person in mourning would wear a pin made of the deceased's hair.

No one knows the exact time table they used to know when to go from unrelieved black to black and white and grey or other somber colors. If the mother was alive, she determined the extent and length of mourning.

Mourning Fashion

People in deep mourning were not supposed to go out to any gathering except church, As they added color to their wardrobes they could add activities to their social calendar. Dinner with close friends and family was permissible in a month, then in another month they could go to oratorios, and concerts. They usually didn't go to balls or dances for the full six months.

If a wedding had been scheduled for sometime, they usually went ahead with it. The bride would not wear black. They did not have wedding gowns , they had gowns they wore to the wedding.

White was an acceptable color and was both fashionable and suitable as mourning.

 

If a man were to hold an Irish title (say earl) and a lesser English one (baron) and he marries in England, does he do so as the earl or the baron?

 

He would marry as the earl. He would use his English barony for a seat in the English House of Lords. There he would be a baron, otherwise he would be an earl.

 

Further from the question about post coaches - I'm fascinated to know about the network of inns. How did they manage the swapping of horses? Who owed what horse? or were all horses considered equal and they didn't mind which horse they went on with?

 

It was a matter of contracts with stables and inns. Some companies owned a string of stables and inns .Other stable owners had a contract with the inn owner to their mutual benefit. . That is, just as a rental car agency will have offices in many cities and towns, the companies that let the horses and the post chaises had specific stops along the way. The one who rented the horses or the post chaise had to also take the postilion. The postilion not only guided the horses, but was there to ensure that the company got its animals and carriages back.

"In England, a postillion, for any distance exceeding ten miles, is very sufficiently paid at the rate of 3 d. a mile, and the turnpikes may be averaged throughout the kingdom at 2d. a mile, though, within fifty miles of London, they do not average more than 1 1/2d a mile, for a chaise and pair ; consequently, for a stage of twelve miles, the expense of postillion and turnpikes may be put at 5s." from Miscellaneous Observations and Opinions on the Continent By Richard Duppa 1825

Horses were rarely leased for a longer distance than twenty miles at a time.Twenty miles was about the limit the horses could comfortably go.

The lease of the chaise itself could be for longer periods, but other arrangements were then made for its return. This would be when a man planned a trip out of town it would return with the carriage in three weeks. There are some law cases recorded in which the renter did not return the chaise and the owner had them arrested for theft by taking. Usually the chaise was hired for a certain stretch of the journey and one changed to another chaise at that point.

One who hired a post chaise to go from Bath to London could probably stay in the same chaise the whole way, only changing the horses.

Coaching days and coaching ways By Tristam, W. Outram Railton, Herbert, Thomson, Hugh, (Internet Archive)

Annals of the road: or, Notes on mail and stage coaching in Great Britain By Malet, Harold Esdaile; Nimrod (Internet Archive)

The coaching era By Wilson, Violet A. (Internet Archive)

Brighton and its coaches : a history of the London and Brighton Road, with some account of the provincial coaches that have run from Brighton By Blew, William C. A. (Internet Archive)

There would be extra charges if the post chaise with horses and postilion had to go to an out of the way place, because the man might have to stay over night somewhere and rest the horses.

A phrase "Hobson's Choice", which actually means that one had no choice, came from a man named Hobson who owned a livery stable where people changed horses. Hobson did not allow any of his customers to choose which horses they wanted. Each had to take the next team up, no matter the quality.

Now, the mail and the stage coach companies had contracts with the livery stables specifying the horses that were to be kept only for them. Sometimes the Royal mail and the stage coach companies had their own horses which they left at the stables. No one else could use these. Some wealthy men , also, kept teams of their own horses at stables along the way from their country seat to London.

"My ride was rendered uncomfortable by a very full coach, and somewhat hazardous by the numbers on the roof, where there were no fewer than nineteen grown people, which, with eight inside, (two more than the stipulated number,) made twenty-seven persons for one carriage, besides the coachman and guard, which made twenty- nine ; the postillion, although not on the coach, made the party thirty. The numbers on the roof were so great, that their limbs hung down on all sides around the coach, like icicles from the eves in a wintry day. I have never known so many to ride on the roof in any former instance, and I acknowledge the story is less credible than true. The night was very warm for the season, and the air in the coach became soon very unpleasant, so that it was necessary to keep a window open. At the borough of Petersfield, which is ten or twelve miles from Portsmouth, we stopped a few minutes, and with an additional pair of horses and a postillion, proceeded on our way." from A Journal of Travels in England, Holland and Scotland, and of Two Passages Over the Atlantic, in the Years 1805 and 1806 by Benjamin Silliman

 

My character needs to travel from Tintagel, North Cornwall, to London. What kind of coach would he use and how long might it take in the year 1817? Also, where can I find the names of hotels in London where he might stay?

 

No commercial coaches are listed as heading directly for Tintagel from London. A map shows that it is 230 miles from London, give or take a mile. That is straight route. Launceston is 213 miles and Tintagel appears to be just short of twenty miles away. A Royal mail coach ( limited passenger seating) goes through Launceston on its way to and from Exeter. The mail travelled between 5 and 8 miles an hour depending on the weather. It did not stop often nor for long.

Other options are to hire a Post chaise, called Yellow Bounders, which were two person closed carriages, driven by a postilion. The draw back of this mode of travel is that one had to change both carriage and horses frequently. The benefit is that one could stop more frequently.

Private travelling carriages were either enclosed carriages with a coachman and drawn by 4 horses, or one drawn by 4-6 horses and guided by a postilion.

In general the trip would take between 46 and 29 hours. It could take longer if the traveler had to take a slower carriage from Tintagel head to Launceston, or if the weather was bad. The roads would not be good until one reached the mail routes. It took the Royal mail two days to make the journey to Falmouth.

The Original Picture of London, Enlarged and Improved By John Feltham, John Britton 1826 (Google Book)

Leigh's New Picture of London 1827 (Google Book)

Cruchley's Picture of London By G. F. Cruchley 1834 (Google book)

Hotels

Clarendon, Limmer's , Ibbetson's, Fladong's, Stephen's and Grillons were fashionable hotels.

The Tsar stayed at the Pulteney's.

A lady might stay at Grillon's

The Clarendon was the only public hotel at which you could get a real French meal at a reasonable cost.

Limmer's evening resort for Sporting world.

Ibbetson's was patronized by clergy and young men down from University.

Fladong's in Oxford Street patronized mainly by naval men.

Walter Scott liked Long's .

Stephen's in Bond Street main abode of officers and men about town. Strangers were not encouraged to dine there.

 

What might an arsonist use to have a building burn more quickly?

 

Gunpowder and lamp oil. Hay, or other easily flammable stuff along with torches could be set alight and thrust into the house. Many houses were burnt during riots when torches were the main means of setting the fire.

 

Did Mothers wear mourning clothes for stillborn infants? Thanks!

 

I have to say I don't think they did so. One reason is that women were in "confinement" for a month after the birth. The first time away from home was usually a trip to church to be "churched" . If the child lived it could be baptized at this time as well. The mother could then return to bed or to partial bed rest for a few more weeks on the grounds that she was still worn out from delivery. By the time she was ready to enter society six weeks or so could have passed . She could dress to suit her mood, though probably wouldn't wear black. There was no need for her to go to balls or assemblies, remember, unless she had an older daughter to launch into the world. Many families lived fairly quietly in the country for most of the year.

Also, white was worn in mourning for a young child, so no one would know if the mother were wearing mourning or not.

 

 

   
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